Tritorella

[evildrem]

As some of you are aware I've not actually been active in the Highlander fandom for that long. I think its about a year a bit now. I'm still very much a newbie really. As such I'd like to relate one of my 'newbie' experiences to you all.



When I took that first swandive into the Highlander fandom I did the usual thing of going to Y!Groups and joining as many HL slash lists as possible. Obviously one of these lists was ODM (OnlyDuncanMethos), which is run by lastrega and the other was SDM (StrictlyDuncanMethos) which is, or was, run by mslasha.

Upon receiving the FAQ for SDM I was somewhat startled by the fact that one of the rules was that there was to be no mention of the writing of or discussion of the person known as tritorella on list. There was also a selection of her other aliases given just to avoid any confusion. At this point, I hasten to add, I didn't *know* Trit. I had seen some of her posts on other lists and read some of her fic but I'd no actual personal experience with her.

This seemed a little *odd* as a rule for a lists so I actually took the step of emailing the mods/owner and asking what on earth this was all about. One of the mods replied as did mslasha personally with a lengthy explanation of their grievances and also a link to webpage (now removed) which had excerpts of emails from Trit amongst other people and purported to be examples of trollish behaviour. Now this disturbed me.

Firstly, I was very uncomfortable with the fact that someone was posting emails on a webpage like this. Secondly, I admit quite freely that I assumed that there is no smoke without fire and that Trit must be a fairly difficult person and done something fairly bad to warrant this sort of treatment. So, I made some comment about how shocked I was, I even offered my services in a legal capacity should the owner or mods of SDM suffer any similar problems in the future and then I went my own sweet way and forgot all about it.

Okay, lets fast forward a month or so. I'm now easing my way into the fandom and big tart that I am, I manage to attract the attention of various lovely people who invite me to join some private HL related lists. One of these people is my darling lastrega who invited me to join a private list she modded. It turns out this list was actually owned by Trit. I thought nothing of it really as I had no actual beef with Trit and liked her stories.

Move forward another month or so. I get involved in writing a Round Robin with various members of Trit's list including lastrega, tritorella herself , litalex, dkwilliams and darthhellokitty. This eventually evolves into Comes A Scotsman and is posted on various lists.

Imagine my surprise to then receive an email from one of the mods of SDM which asked me if I was indeed a member of Trit's private list. I replied saying "Yes" and asking, "why she wanted to know this?" I then got back a decidedly snippy email accusing me, amongst other things, of being a spy for Trit on SDM and associating with people known to be sympathisers with her. As you can probably imagine my response to that was somewhat less then civil. It's also worth mentioning at this point that at no time on Trit's list had mslasha or any of her friends been mentioned nor the disagreement that existed between them been alluded to. Anyway, I exchanged various mildly irritated emails with the mods and the owner of SDM and I did think that the situation had been resolved as I heard nothing further from any of them.

At the same time I was less then polite on Trit's list. I basically posted something along the lines of, "what the flying fuck is all this crap and why am I getting dragged into it?" *That* was the first time I actually heard the 'other' side of the story from both Trit, herself and from lastrega. Taking all this on board, I'm afraid my response was pretty much still, "all well and good but frankly I don't *care* what happened or about what someone has or hasn't done and bollocks to the lot of you, leave me out of it!"

Shortly after this, I attempted to access the SDM archive and found I was no longer a member of the list. When I tried to email mslasha to ask why I had been removed from the list, my email was returned because my email address had apparently been blocked.

So I washed my hands of the whole affair and moved on.

Over time I have got to know tritorella better. She is without a shadow of a doubt, an acquired taste. She's opinionated, she's blunt and sometimes she is rude. I have on occasion disagreed vehemently with things she has said on lists. This does not however stop me regarding her as an excellent writer, a great contributor to fandom and someone I have the utmost respect, admiration and friendship for. Of late she has kindly volunteered to host my Kink!Fic Challenge on her webpage and also to update it for me, even though she now has left the Highlander fandom.

I can't comment on what has caused all the animosity between Trit and mslasha and her friends. I wasn't around when it happened. I can however make the following observations:

1. Disagreeing with someone, even hating them is understandable. We are not all going to like each other in fandom and sometimes this will involve frayed tempers all round. I am as guilty as anyone of this. Look at the whole J-Blo mess! That said, posting lists of email addresses, IP addresses and various aliases publically on the web, of people you don't like, is *not* acceptable for *any* reason. It's an infringement of personal privacy and doubly so if you cannot even get these correct and implicate people who have nothing to with your little fight.

2. Squealing constantly on lists and in LJ about how badly the person you disagree with has treated you and how they are 'stalking' you, starts to wear slightly thin after the first year or so. Particularly when the person you disagree with hasn't mentioned your argument at all, anywhere.

3. It's a good idea to have clear proof that someone has done you wrong before you start waging a campaign of hate against them across several fandoms. Funnily enough uninvolved third parties might actually consider behaviour like that as stalking and troll-like.

4. Accusing people you don't know of spying for your enemies is pathetic. It may come as a shock to you but many people could not care less about your dispute, nor do they want to hear about it.

mslasha, wickdzoot, houseofsnark, and xander_spike you have brought all this on yourselves by your ridiculous behaviour. I have no sympathy and I certainly shall be regarding any of your future whines about being stalked and harassed with a very large pinch of salt. I see that now, you have deleted most of the controversial comments from your LJ's. I think that says it all.

Everyone involved in this hideous mess should take a deep breath, get some perspective and back away from the argument before things get seriously nasty. I know it's a hard thing to ask for mature behaviour in fandom but you know, I live in hope! I'll leave it up to whoever reads this to make their own minds up about who is telling the truth. If you want to abuse, shout, comment or talk to me about what I said please do. I have simply stated the facts as I see them. Undoubtably I'm going to be accused of bias in favour of Trit because of my interaction with her. I think however the majority of people who read this will realise I have no axe to grind.

There is one thing I would like to add to this. The comment here made by gabixenafen about Trit is a complete and utter lie. I don't care how 'reliable' the so-called source was. I was at HLDU5 with Trit and present for all her interactions (which were few) with the various guests of honour. I can state categorically that this *never* happened! Spreading lies like this is malicious and nasty and says more about the people who make them then anything about Trit. The organisers of HLDU5 would be equally horrified to see that false accusations such as these are being made. I strongly suggest to the owner of this LJ that this comment is removed.

Now, lets *never* speak of this again.

Comments

[yonmei.livejournal.com]

Um, well - hope you don't mind (if you do, I'll go delete it at once) but I already posted a link to this post... because it strikes me as being a good thing to say.

Like you, I don't always get on with Tritorella. However, I am horrified at the way some people are spreading lying and malicious rumours about her.

There are a lot of very stupid people in fandom

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

The sort of harrassment Trit has had to put up with I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy and that includes J-Blo.

I don't mind you posting a link to what I have to say. Its posted public because I'm happy for anyone to read it.

[nmg.livejournal.com]

Amazing. Makes mainstream littie fandom look sensible...

Yeah tell me about it...

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

*rolls eyes*

I don't normally get dragged into this kind of thing but the way Tritorella has been treated through all this is just disgusting and it needs to stop. Now.

[anuanu.livejournal.com]

I joined the HL fandom because of Tritorella - her work was so amazing, it drew me in. That should count for something. No one else really suits my tastes as well as her work.

Now, when I heard about this little spat, I was curious, and I did attempt to join the other group. But, like you, I got bitched out for SPYING when I wasn't - and refused admmittance. Lord knows, I've never talked to Trit personally in my life. I love her work. She seems a nice person.

All this crap is ridiculous. I think the other party needs to shut up, buck up, and fuck off.

This happened to you as well?

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

When was that then? Sorry I'm just curious to see how many other people got the same treatment..

[bethcarielle.livejournal.com]

Guess I'm among the ranks of the Trit spys seeing as I'm part of SDM...although I don't know why anymore...but love Trit's work and her opinionated, blunt comments.

*points and squeees*

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

SPY, SPY!...

*grins*

Hey for all I know you could be a double agent..;)

[dkwilliams.livejournal.com]

I am so with you on this issue, Em. I actually *like* people on both sides of this squabble inasfar as it concerns HL fandom. I'm a pretty easy-going person, and it takes a lot to get my back up - I just generally *like* people. So it's upsetting to be asked to take sides when I really don't *care* about what happened umpteen years ago. It's like being back in grade school and being asked who one likes "bestest", and being excluded from the lunchroom table because you're seen talking with the class outcast. I would hope we're all adults since we're on adult lists. Fandom should be about the *Fandom* - the characters, the stories, the fanfiction - and not about the people *in* fandom.

Weeellll...

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

I would have said I didn't care about anyone involved in the fight except Trit and Sonia. The recent flare up however has left me with a fairly low opinion of Holly and friends I'm afraid. Particularly given the appalling lies about the convention.

As I have said previously, I don't normally get involved in this sort of rubbish but in this case the attacks on Trit were getting so unpleasant I felt something had to be said.

[slb44.livejournal.com]

You have no idea how fascinating this all is to me. Apparently we both wandered over to HL fandom about the same time. I too signed up to as many lists as I could find and began to read about this horrendous person that was harassing, stalking, etc. I'd read some of Trit's stories previous to actually joining any lists and didn't even realize who or what they were talking about.

Later, fool that I sometimes be, I commented in a positive manner about one of Trit's stories. Boy oh boy, did I get blasted. All done privately so that no one on list would know about it. Mind you, they gave me the benefit of the doubt, being a newbie and all, and just warned me off.

Then the crap about HLDU5 hit the fan. I had a good and trusted friend at that event and was told every word being spewed was a lie and I believed her.

Later, when some individuals found out I was involved heavily in Stargate fandom they tried to warn me that Trit was in that fandom, causing trouble and I should out her. I asked for proof, which they never bothered trying to present to me, so I ignored them completely.

Then J-Blo showed up and I actually got to see a real troll in action. ;-)

In conclusion, I agree with you completely. This whole thing seems like a complete and utter screw up over an honest difference of opinions and that's just so sad. To do what they've tried to do to Trit is truly horrendous and it's made me very careful with my interactions in HL fandom.

The sad thing is...

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

..that HL fandom then gets a reputation for being full of nutters and psychos and that's simply not true. Some of the best people in fandom I have met in HL.

Still its good to know I'm not the only one who ran into the same brick wall when you joined the fandom. Tedious wasn't it? :)

[tritorella.livejournal.com]

they tried to warn me that Trit was in that fandom

Apart from a transient interest in finding some Jack/Daniel fiction, and losing interest almost immediately because 99% of the stuff I found was crap, listing a few of the stories I liked on my recs site, and having seen maybe less than 30% of the episodes, I can hardly to have even been *interested* in looking at SG1 fandom, let alone being *in* it. Not only do these dipsticks want to control who does what in fandom, they want to define what fandom even means?

What next? Checks at the fucking door? It's already got to the point that you have to hand over personal data just to play on the edges of the playpens these muckrakers run - maybe if someone needs you to give name, rank and serial number to them for acceptance, you don't need *them*.

[kaiz.livejournal.com]

What you've described is exactly the sort of conflict that made me bail from all HL discussion lists and concentrate on just reading the fic. All the coalitions and politics and kerfuffles got to be a bit much for me after a while.

*sage nod*

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

I can understand that you know. I found it hugely offputting when I first joined the fandom.

Your missed you know. Are you sure I can't tempt a another Methos/Kronos story out of you? *big kitten eyes*

[xtricks.livejournal.com]

Well, I've always been of the opinion that the internet is like high school - cliques and rumors abound. My friends tell me it's more like kindergarden ;)

I belive it's because of the particular flaws and advantages of the internet. I find it dificult to read people's intent when they are discussing a subject by 'net - whether the topic is of deep personal interest and therefore any disagreement is not welcome, or if the topic is just something fun to talk about. Hence, misinterpretation abounds and hurt feelings can occur with no one being the wiser until it's far to late.

I also think that the internet has a tendancy to bring out the least pleasant aspects of people; since you don't actually meet the target of your irritation in person, all those social rules we live by in face-to-face intereactions seem to fall by the wayside for far to many people.

That said; having nothing to do with any of the HL fandom, nor knowing anyone involved - I can say that people who use the 'cootie' style of proving their case ('miss'spelling a person's name to make it obscene, talking about the personal grooming habits or body odors of someone they've never met, putting up insulting information then telling anyone who responds to 'never mind' and 'stop bothering me') don't win many points in my book. And for gods' sake, don't drag uninvolved people into it. *rolls eyes* 'spies' indeed. This is the internet, no spies are needed - pretty much everything is public.

The whole incident is..

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

..just nasty, stupid and infantile. Much as you say like high school.

Normally I don't get involved but in this case the level of sheer malignancy that Trit has been subjected to for the last couple of years (to my knowledge) culminating in the latest round of publishing lists of private emails and ISP addresses led me to have to say something.

I think there are a lot of people out there with far too much time on their hands! *sighs*

[kijikun.livejournal.com]

Hey could be worse. We could have Victora Bitter and OB in HL fandom.

*flees*

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

Ack! No if that were the case. I would have left the fandom myself. Very. Quickly.

[darthhellokitty.livejournal.com]

Well said. As you know, tritorella brought me into the fandom, and has been my friend ever since.

Thank you *very* much for refuting the HLDU5 story; it always struck me as deeply unlikely and I'm glad someone who was there has finally spoken up.

Now if people would just put as much energy into writing fic as they do into slamming people, we'd be swimming in porn...

*applauds*

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

I concur! More porn, less bitching! Hey we should get an icon! *grins*

[lastrega.livejournal.com]

*applauds* Well said, hon. Just one point that's probably got blurred in the mists of time, I wasn't ever a mod of T's list. If I invited you (did I? how clever of me) it was just as a member.

[tritorella.livejournal.com]

IIRC, I think you suggested that Em was suitably kinky, deranged interesting, might be fun to have on the list and would I invite her, which I did and have never regretted. And no, you aren't a mod - I'm not technically even the owner of the list any more.

[ariestess]

Ahhhh...Doncha just love the stupidity and narrowmindedness of small people who have nothing better to do than malign others in fandom?

Had my own share of something similar in some ST:VOY [femslash] fandoms. *rolls eyes at stupidity*

Obviously, these people don't understand being openminded and realizing that misunderstandings happen. [Since I wasn't involved in the whole bruahaha, I don't know what happened. Nor, really, do I care at this point.]

There are several people in the fandom whose work I like. I don't personally care what their fandom politics are, as long as it doesn't affect me unless I choose it.

As for tritorella, I like her work. Period.

*hopes this made sense*

For heaven's sake

[mckrycek.livejournal.com]

This entire thing is too ridiculous for words! If people are still arguing and fussing over SDM and Holly and Trit and so on, they need to get a life already!
I'm not pointing fingers at anyone on either side. I am irritated that my list has been dragged into things. Holly DOES NOT own SDM any longer. I do. She is not a moderator, she is not even a member. No one has been refused membership since I took over the list. No one has talked about Trit or Sonia or Em or ODM.
If you have a problem with fans belonging to SDM, your problem is with those people, not the list. If you have a problem with the list, unsubscribe. If you have a problem with me... I don't care.
Just leave my list out of this shit.
Please.
Jennie

Re: For heaven's sake

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

This entire thing is too ridiculous for words! If people are still arguing and fussing over SDM and Holly and Trit and so on, they need to get a life already!

Agreed. Hence the post. The people 'fussing' happen to be Holly and her friends however so make of that what you will.

Holly DOES NOT own SDM any longer. I do. She is not a moderator, she is not even a member. No one has been refused membership since I took over the list. No one has talked about Trit or Sonia or Em or ODM

Okay so you own SDM now. The incidents I set out in my post happened before the change of ownership. No one has suggested you have refused membership since then infact no one has mentioned *you* at all. I actually couldn't give a pink honk whether you talk about about me on SDM or not. Ditto for Sonia or Trit I suspect. I sincerely hope your list has got better things to discuss.

If you have a problem with fans belonging to SDM, your problem is with those people, not the list. If you have a problem with the list, unsubscribe. If you have a problem with me... I don't care.
Just leave my list out of this shit.

1. Did you actually read my post? I have no problem with your list or who belongs to it. If the FAQ still has that nasty little paragraph about Trit in it then I do take issue with the way you run your list.

Does it?

If it doesn't and the list has changed now you own it then I will be only to happy to post and state that openly.

2. I'm not a member of SDM

3. SDM when it was owned by Holly and her friends is an intrinsic part(sadly) of all the bullshit that has been spread about concerning Trit. My post stated facts as they happened. I am quite happy to agree that the list may *now* be different following the change of ownership but you'll have to convince me first.

4. Calm down.

Some points to consider

[tritorella.livejournal.com]

That said, posting lists of email addresses, IP addresses and various aliases publically on the web, of people you don't like, is *not* acceptable for *any* reason.

It is really rather odd that since some of the people involved in spreading these email addresses - or allowing comments listing them to remain in their LJs right up until LJ Abuse forced them to be removed - are involved in providing services to fans and being in commercial relationships with them. One would have thought their reputations for being trustworthy and being able to keep confidential, personal information garnered through such commercial relationshops private, would be immensely important to them - but clearly that matters less than making sure that their friends are provided with whatever ammunition they need to pursue their grudge matches.

On the question of email addresses - just because a fan also contacts you under her real name, using her 'real' email address (with no intention to deceive, and making the connection herself between fannish and real identities), does not give you the right to connect real and fannish information or to claim that such personal information is somehow connected to fandom. For instance, if a fan ran LiveJournal, and I had a problem with my account (or, as I have just done, reported several users for abuse), and I gave my real name and my profesional email (as I did, because this isn't a fannish thing, it's to do with real entities and legal matters) that doesn't give Brad the right to spread my real name and email address all over LiveJournal or any other wesbites he may host. One of the addresses listed in the now thankfully deleted journal belonging to one of these people, was harvested in just this fashion - I wrote to one of the people involved over a commercial matter, and used my real name and professional email because this was a matter of legalities. I may be guilty of stupidity - but what does it make the person who passed that email on to a third party, or the person who passed it onto mslasha just so she could pretend it was an attempt by me to deceive honest fans? How is it deception to use an address for non fannish purposes, completely non-anonymously - an address never used on any list, on any fannish website, or for any other identity but my own?

Similarly - if any of you have ever written to someone you call a close friend from a work address, or a temporary address pureply on a personal basis, would you expect your 'friend' to call that address a fannish address and think they were justified in spreading it around? If any of you have ever changed pseuds along with a fandom, or used a joint pseud for a co-authored project, would you expect people to claim you were carrying out a deception? And would it *ever* justify publishing someone's real name, private addresses and family email addresses?

So next time you see this list of email addresses passed around (and it is being passed around, I am sure of it), or you access a selective little enclave and are 'initiated' into the great secret that is Tritorella - just remember this. Fans fall out with astonishing regularity. Next time - this could be you.

GADS I'm sorry...I thought I'd clipped that part...

[gnu57.livejournal.com]

with the names and such!! I am so sorry. I'm glad it's already been deleted.

[nekojita.livejournal.com]

See, this is why I don't think I can ever join the HL fandom, and it's by no means Trit's fault because I've never made it a secret of being a friend of hers. While I know there are some truly lovely people in this fandom, there just seems to be too many assholes w/ axes to grind for me to join a ML or anything. I'll stick w/ lurking for fics, thank you very much. Wonder if those twits realize how much they've ruined (or at least made it seem a very silly place) various fandoms, or if they even care. Somehow, I doubt it.