Sometimes...

[evildrem]

..I find fandom depressing. There are many reasons for this but chief amongst these is the attitude towards the BDSM scene and related subjects.

I swear, if I read one more comment which suggests all BDSM in fanfic is character abuse, or refers to the practice as 'deviant behaviour' or implies that any story containing BDSM, has, by definition to be badly written and wrong, I shall punch someone in the nose.

I'd rather read a bad BDSM or slave!fic over one more story containing any of the following; cute children or pets, mind numbing descriptions of food and food preparation, detailed references to what clothing style, items and labels the characters are wearing or revoltingly sentimental holiday references.

I had this discussion a few months ago with sidhe_woman, bigtitch and jhava where it was decided that my biggest *squick* would be a story where Methos and Duncan marry, settle down and adopt a small child who can magically turn into an adorable kitten which Methos carries around in his coat pocket, in between cooking amazing meals for his beloved Dunkie-Wunkie and them both going shopping for clothes which match each others eyes. At Thanksgiving.

*shudders*



N/B If upon reading this you are offended and think I am referring to you or anything you or your bestest friend, have said/written. *YES* I wrote this with specifically you/them in mind. Next week I plan to locate where you live and then scrawl abusive graffiti on your house.

Comments

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

I'm wondering whether some of the people who object to BDSM do so because they've only ever read the bad stuff and think that it accurately portrays what BDSM is all about, when in fact the story in question is just *bad*. I must admit I've read some -- when it's All About the Gadgets and not how the protaganists *feel*, which for me is the whole point in a good BDSM story -- that have me ROFL. I find them deeply unsexy and either laughable or a turn off. If I'd stumbled onto one of those Gadgets type first, instead of being fortunate enough to read a good one (His Beloved Pet in TNG, which really got to me despite the fact that usually I find neither Picard or Q particularly sexy) I might not have realised that I really like the good BDSM fanfic out there.

There also seems to be a conflating of non-con and BDSM in some people's minds, which is completely inaccurate, of course. But some people who don't like BDSM may not do so because they don't like non-con and think they're one and the same. Completely missing the point about *consent*, of course.

I think the solution is for you and the good BDSM writers out there to continue to write more and more of the good stuff. *g* Drown out the bad BDSM stories! Down with bad BDSM and yay! for the good ones.

*smiles hopefully*

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

His Beloved Pet! First fanfic I ever read. First erotica I ever read. First kink I ever read. I think it scarred me for life. In the good way. *g*

And I think you're onto something here. A lot of times, people dismiss something whole cloth because they've only seen a bad example of it (slash, RPF, noncon, BDSM, etc.) And I have to say, truthfully, I think that's true of kitten stories, food stories, etc. It's just that, perhaps, there are more of them, so you have to sift more to get to the rare gems. Maybe. All I know is, I never thought I'd read a kitten story until Theresa Coffman wrote one. And Food + Sex is a huge turnoff for me, until Unovis made me realize how it could work.

YMMV, natch.

Please see..

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

..my response to mandragora1 above for more details.

I agree that there are always going to be exceptions to the rule. I wouldn't be irritated if people acknowledged that while there are some very bad BDSM stories out there, there are also some good ones. It's the assumption that they are all bad simply because they involve BDSM which I find infuriating.

I know the kitten story of which you speak as well. It rocks, as does most of Theresa's stories.

I think we can all agree that gross generalizations are a Bad Thing. Sometimes it is an effective means of getting a point across. I feel like I want to take the extreme opposite to some of the opinions constantly expressed in general fandom just because someone has to even the balance.

If we have to have warnings for BDSM can we also have warnings for kittens and children? *grins*

Re: Please see..

[killabeez.livejournal.com]

If we have to have warnings for BDSM can we also have warnings for kittens and children? *grins*

I'd be for that. I still haven't found the kid story that works for me. I wrote one once, actually, but the kid was Saavik, so that seemed different somehow. Although after the fact, I wondered what the heck possessed me. *g*

Assumptions and generalizations are always dumb and annoying. (she generalized ;-)

True..

[evildrem.livejournal.com]

....but to be honest I take what your saying as read. There are a lot of BDSM stories out there which are appalling. There are also a lot of other stories out there which are equally as bad but for some reason the BDSM section gets singled out for particular vitriol.

Hell, I thought I'd never read a story featuring children. Then I read decarnin The Deep and can't wait for the next part. There are always exceptions to every rule.

The truth is that much of the reasons for this continual bashing is simply because people have knee jerk, bad-wrong-evil reactions to BDSM which bleed through into their responses to stories. No one actually wants to come across as narrow minded however so they just make deeply uninformed comments. I swear rather then "I have many friends who are gay" as the standard disclaimer it's "I have many friends who are into BDSM"..

Unsurprisingly, this pisses me off.

What I am particularly referring to is the wide spread view that anything which involves BDSM automatically = bad writing.

The reasoning for this is frequently that 'the characters wouldn't behave like this and the writer is simply catering to their kinks'.

One of the reasons I started the Kink!Fic Challenge was an attempt to demonstrate that 'anything' can be a kink and that a large majority of fanfic could therefore be criticized in the same way.

Personally I find the idea of Methos and Duncan settling down to domestic bliss as OOC. That's the way I see it and what I take from watching the TV series. I rarely, however, feel the need to constantly tell people who write these kinds of stories that they are 'abusing the characters' and bad writers.

The non-con and BDSM confusion is a whole 'nother kettle of worms. Don't get me started on that, or the people who tell me I'm sick for liking BDSM and then claim that extreme hurt/comfort is their fic type of choice.

The solution is to write more good BDSM stories. I am hoping to run another story challenge shortly. Hopefully some of the responses will assist in this direction. As always a pleasure to read your thought.

Re: True..

[mandragora1.livejournal.com]

I think a good enough writer can sell just about anything. I'm not big on kidfic myself (it's one of my least favourite genres) but in SGA fandom I adore A Beautiful Lifetime Event and one by Livia, Small Primes and I'm blanking on the rest of the title. Both a kidfic. Both are *good* kidfic. Doesn't change my mind that the vast majority of kidfic is rather crappier than normal for slash.

Haven't read The Deep, as yet, because it's a WIP and Entreat Me Not to Leave Thee (which hits my kinks *so hard*) remains unfinished decades later. So, I'm not reading it until she's finished it, to prevent the frustration and spitting at the keyboard wanting the rest *now*. *g*

I can understand your anger at people who have this knee-jerk reaction that BDSM = bad. To say that the characters would never behave like this smacks of arrogance, because what gives them such a unique insight? Who are *they* to say never? I think it's fair to say that some characters need more work to place convincingly into a BDSM scenario than others but in the hands of a good enough writer pretty much anything is possible.

Even mpreg. Yes. I've actually read one mpreg that I liked. It was written from a humorous perspective BTW, but not as a broad comedy.

And I couldn't agree more about kinks. If those people who adore hurt/comfort, or kidfic, or curtainfic can't recognise that it's as much a kink as BDSM or non-con, or whatever else floats your boat, then they lack insight into both themselves and fanfiction generally. That said, I know several people who adore H/C who will freely acknowledge that it's a kink. I think what it boils down to is there are stupid people everywhere.

Re: True..

[elmyraemilie.livejournal.com]

The reasoning for this is frequently that 'the characters wouldn't behave like this and the writer is simply catering to their kinks'.

This strikes me as a kind of denial. BDSM and its derivatives are common enough these days, according to surveys and so on, that just about everyone knows people who engage in it, whether they realize it or not. Enjoyment of BDSM doesn't show, or at least it doesn't have to; "normal" people do it, and no one who knows them casually is the wiser. Folks who are made afraid or turned-off by sexual power play don't want to imagine that their favorite TV character might actually be "like that," anymore than they want to know that their insurance agent or their nurse or their lawyer goes home to a lovely spanking.